Interesting Chuck commentary, plus other stuff

[zvi]

Chuck vs. Half the Human Race by Abigail Nussbaum (via cofax7)

I'm not sure I agree entirely with her conclusions (I don't, for instance, see Anna having been less geeky than Jeff, Lester, or Morgan, and I think she dismisses Jill's geekery too quickly; she swerves right past the General as if she doesn't exist) but her analysis of Sarah and Ellie is pretty spot on.

Also, halfamoon is ramping up. (A fourteen day celebration of female characters in fandom.) Prompt post is open until February 13; posting is the last two weeks in February, and the minimums are ridiculously low. (100 words text, single icon, etc.)

Can I just say, though, that I'm really over The Good Wife assumption: if you like women characters, you'll be watching The Good Wife? No, no, I won't. The Good Wife is everything I hate in television: it's about mature, heterosexual adults facing their problems in grown up and responsible ways* that do not involve spaceships, vampires, or other speculative fiction set dressing. I don't watch that show when it's about dudes, I'm not going to watch it to see Christine Baranski as a not particularly fabulous bitch**. (Julianna Margulies does exactly zero for me, Archie Panjabi seems like someone I'll enjoy watching in some other show entirely, one with werewolves, quirkiness, or violent criminals being apprehended by wily detectives.)

*AFAICT, the people being irresponsible on this show are not held up as lovable examples of awesome slackeriness or budding master criminals, but just losers who need to grow the fuck up. So not my scene.

**I watched, like, an episode and a half? If that's not the essence of her character, I still don't care, because she's got a smaller role than Margulies or Punjabi. Also, SNAG is not a look that I appreciate on Josh Charles.

Comments

[cofax7]

Well, I can't fault your argument with TGW -- it's definitely not genre and there are no explosions. But (a minor correction) Josh Charles' character isn't actually a SNAG -- the show is being pretty cagy with him, but while he's not an out-and-out criminal like Chris Noth's character, he's pretty fucking skeevy sometimes. Or very self-involved and pragmatic. Not in any way a romantic figure, except very much on the surface. Like most of the other characters on the show (except for Cary), it's a complex portrayal, and they keep peeling back the layers. Which is a nice change for me after WC and Leverage, I have to say.

But, hey, not your beautiful cake. No big deal.

[zvi]

My understanding of the SNAG is that he's usually a pretty skeevy character, a Nice Guy™, so finding out that he's self-involved and pragmatic really doesn't change anything in my assessment.

I just get a little bit tired of the promotion of The Good Wife as the antidote to the Where Are the Female Characters? problem.

[cofax7]

I just get a little bit tired of the promotion of The Good Wife as the antidote to the Where Are the Female Characters? problem

Oh, I totally get it. Also, there shouldn't be just one show where all the female characters are, either!

Okay, Castle has four female characters, but half of them are purely domestic and one of those is mostly played for laughs.

[monanotlisa]

The Good Wife is everything I hate in television: it's about mature, heterosexual adults facing their problems in grown up and responsible ways* that do not involve spaceships, vampires, or other speculative fiction set dressing.

That made me grin. And yeah.

[abigail-n.livejournal.com]

she swerves right past the General as if she doesn't exist

Uh, yeah, I did do that, didn't I? My only defense is that the general is not so much a character as a plot generator, but you're right that she deserved a mention. (As for Anna, I agree that she started out pretty geeky, but that mostly went away when she hooked up with Morgan.)

As for The Good Wife, I sympathize with both your points, in that I really have no interest in lawyer shows and am continually surprised at how hooked I am by this one (though at least part of the appeal is the ongoing story of the main character's husband's incarceration and possible framing, which certainly breaks the lawyer show mold) and I much prefer shows with vampires, spaceships, etc. But name me one current genre show that doesn't make you want to scream with frustration at its genderfail (for that matter, name me one current genre show that isn't stultifyingly boring or really badly made). I agree that it's frustrating, but if you want interesting female characters on TV today, The Good Wife is pretty much your only port of call.

That said, I like that the show is about adult characters dealing with adult problems (and is not a soap opera) because that's pretty rare, and as I mention in my post, even the best female characters of the last couple of decades were for the most part either girls or girlish. That's nice, but maybe because I'm no longer a girl myself, I'm interested in other perspectives.

[grey_bard]

But name me one current genre show that doesn't make you want to scream with frustration at its genderfail.

Fringe. Criminal Minds.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

[abigail-n.livejournal.com]

I feel about Criminal Minds the way Zvi feels about The Good Wife - I know a lot of people like it, but I'm so completely uninterested in a show about serial killers that I can't be bothered (also I tend to use 'genre' more in the sense of SF/F/H, especially given how ubiquitous procedural are on TV, but I take your point that CM may count as well). Fringe is a show I watched for a couple of episodes last year and then got bored. You may be right about the female characters, but the show itself just didn't grab me.

[grey_bard]

Understandable. But they do exist!

[copracat]

No Anna is reducing my Chuck enjoyment.

As for swerving past General Beckman well, women over 40 are invisible, you know.

Actually, I've been bombarded with ads for Cougar Town while watching the Australian Open so I'll change that to women over 40 are invisible unless being held up to sexual ridicule.

Also, do not have Yvonne Strahovski or General Beckman icon upoaded! Disaster!

[jaciem]

OK, gotta ask. SNAG?

[zvi]

Sensitive New Age Guy.

[jaciem]

Huh. I guess the context threw me. Your understanding of a SNAG differs from mine -- the skeevy/Nice Guy(tm)-ness is not a part of my understanding of that term.

But then again, I haven't really heard that term used since the early '90s, so mayhaps the definition has evolved. *g*